I have this arguement / discussion with friends all the time. Deep down I am a purist and I believe that vinyl is the essence of all DJing. However, it would be stupid to ignore the amazing technological developments that have taken DJing to levels we only dreamt of 10 years ago. If you are using serato or final scratch, etc to manipulate your MP3s I still believe you are harnessing the true essence of the DJ. But if you are using these fandangled new stations that you just have to plug your ipod into... then no you are not a DJ. remember D-J = Disk Jockey not Digital - Jockey.
I think the question should relate to the way in which a DJ mixes, in other words the method as opposed to the medium.
For instance, a DJ can spin vinyl, CDs or play MP3s through a CDJ in real-time (i.e. LIVE or ad-lib) which essentially requires a LOT of talent and experience to pull off a good mix.
On the other hand, a DJ might use software like Ableton or VeeJay which only requires that you compile a good list of tracks and make sure your cue points are appropriate. It's not live, therefore it's not really 'DJing'.
DJ Kork said it very well - DJ doesn't stand for digital jockey.
Ergo, I can't really vote on this because the question doesn't take into account the method a DJ uses to DJ, which in my opinion determines if s/he's a 'real' or 'proper' dj.
Well said Mussolini. I still think that stringing tracks together using software takes a lot of the skill away from DJing.
Just playing music for other people doesn't necessarily make you a DJ though, it makes you a jukebox - in 9 years of mobile DJing, I came to understand there's a difference (this is a matter of definition though).
I only play cd's and vinyl at present but am a firm believer in the fact that if you dont embrace technology you get left behind!!!
If you play on Ableton etc then you should be doing MORE than is possible with vinyl or cdj's and doing remixes on the fly etc...
Being able to play and mix vinyl doesn'e make you a good dj at all it just means you can beat match, beat matching is a veryn small part of the complete package, dont kid yourself otherwise...
Take producing as an example you can buy a whole dvd of samples, have your DAW put them in the right key and tempo but it doesn't mean you can make a good track without the knowledge and talent!!!!
And I agree... but I'd also like to clarify here that the point I was trying to make is merely about the method of laying down a mix.
When it comes to playing to a crowd - it's a different game. The focus, of course, should be on the entertainment of your audience, therefore you've got to play GREAT tracks in a GREAT sequence and mix them GREATLY (use software to do this and you'll be told where to go if anyone finds out).
In saying that, I've seen BT play his 'Laptop Symphony' twice now, and he uses musical instruments alongside his laptop to create a different experience altogether. I would call him an artist because of it, not a DJ.
I have old Renaissance C.D.'s that were marketed and sold as "D.J. Mixes" that feature BT and in the liner notes BT stresses the point that he does not consider himself to be a D.J. at all. He states something along the lines of being a "digital artist". I remember reading this and thinking what a curious way to present yourself, especially when this was released all the way back in 1997 when the D.J. superstar phenomenon was in full effect and everyone wanted to be a "D.J.". When you listen to his mix it seems a lot like a D.J. mix but most of the content has been altered, remixed by BT on the fly or pre edited and effects used all to enhance what he was presenting. 1997. Long before the commercial availability of software applications that we are all familiar with these days. He is not a D.J. but many people would still quote his name when asked who there most memorable D.J. performances were.
If your using technology because you are too lazy to learn the finer points of the art of mixing but still presenting yourself as a D.J you are cheating. If your good at it how ever and the audience engages in your sound and flow your are successful. Chances are though that if you have this command of your medium and, in turn the command of the listeners, that you have not skipped the previously essential education required to perform in this fashion. As has been stated it's all about the music. In the future (and presently) this technology will allow artists to skip learning beat matching should they choose to but it will not make them any more proficient in the vital elements required to rock the crowd. Track selection, musical phrasing and the physical element involved when performing all contribute to the way a dance floor engages with the performer. If you are just pushing buttons to cue the next big floor filler after the last big floor filler the audience will eventually get bored with you and see through you. If you have pre edited it all so you have very little to do when responding to the atmosphere and mood of the crowd you will get bored yourself. If your not the most animated person whilst playing but have used your tools to bring them something new and poured your soul and knowledge of your medium into the performance it will be reflected in the output and the crowd will appreciate this more than if your jumping around like a trained monkey compensating for your lack of effort in other areas.
In the past Danny Tenaglia has been know to request a curtain to be placed in front of him while playing or for the decks to be moved to a less conspicuous location in the venue to take the emphasis off him as the artist and have the focus shifted back onto the music. A little frustrating for those who really wanted to see him play but does it detract from the music itself?
If you are not using C.D.'s or vinyl as your medium then no I don't think you are a D.J. in the strictest sense of the term. If you are presenting yourself as a D.J. and not utilizing the other benefits (looping, effects, multiple sound inputs, etc.) that bypassing the beat mixing or blending process that traditional D.J.'ing encompasses then your cheating yourself and the audience. You might still be billed as a D.J. but playing recorded music to an audience doesn't make you a D.J. any more than eating a burrito makes you Mexican. If you use your music and what ever your chosen medium is to produce it to offer the listener your own interpretation of how it should sound and rock you, calm you, make you feel, what ever the desired result, however minimal those differences should be to the original content then your are an artist. D.J. or not. It's all about the music and the experience.
If your using technology because you are too lazy to learn the finer points of the art of mixing but still presenting yourself as a D.J you are cheating.
Don't agree .. Will you be able to make better milkshakes because you know how to milk a cow? No.. but you may feel better about yourself. The balance and quality of the ingredients is what will make it taste great.
rhyspdk wrote:
If you are not using C.D.'s or vinyl as your medium then no I don't think you are a D.J. in the strictest sense of the term.
Why ? I'm still not getting it.. I've listened to plenty of vinyl/cdj mixes that are just fucken PLAIN OLD SHIT. So in that case I'd rather listen to an Ableton or mixmeister set any day.
I've also seen very average Ableton sets too BTW. I think there needs to be a live (human) element to a DJ performance to make it good. Perfect mixes suck.
I am not trying to take anything away from using mediums other than vinyl or c.d.'s, (I use a laptop for 95% of performances) all I'm saying is that you are not actually "jockeying disc's" which is what the term refers to. I switched to Ableton about 4 years ago largely due to logistical restrictions when traveling, but also because of a fascination with new technology and the possibilities it offered. I now play almost exclusively from my laptop. I usually have some vinyl with me either as back up or to play tracks that aren't available in digital format, or sometimes just because I want to play vinyl. I have only used CDJ's twice when playing live and never outside of a club and didn't feel right with them due only to my inexperience with them not because of any prejudice against them.
I guess I may have misrepresented myself when I said that you are cheating calling it D.J.'ing and not spinning disc's depending on your personal views of what can and can't be called D.J.'ing. You yourself said that perfect beatmixing does not make a D.J. I do believe though that currently those that have gone through the traditional learning curve in most (not all) instances have a better grasp when it comes to phrasing ie: determining drop points, fade points and cuts. This will not always be the case. I don't think everyone should have to go through this. It's a matter of preference and I don't judge anyones choice in the matter. My point was if your not spinning discs it is the term itself that is a point of contention with some people and after much experience in debating the topic (often whilst mixing off a laptop and some punter is trying to tell me "it's not really "D.J.'ing" is it?") I have simply decided that it's easier at this stage to call it just "playing" or "mixing".
If your letting the technology do it for you with the least possible amount of input from yourself maybe it's just yourself that your letting down or the audience as well but if your happy with that then thats all that matters. I like to have more influence on the process.
I too have heard many software produced mixes that were to put it plainly dog shit. The art of mixing is progressing and what ever way you choose to go about it I am fine with it. My predilection is for Ableton at the present though I still really love vinyl. If I play an entire set off Ableton I would not call it D.J.'ing but if anyone else would like to thats fine with me. If someone else plays without discs and wants to call it D.J.'ing I wont argue with them or say any different behind their back as the process results in much the same product.
I know I'm long winded I just want to get across that I am open to all formats. I don't think it matters as long as you and or any one else listening enjoys it and takes something away from it. I'm no hater.
DJing is all about playing to an audience, reading that audience & making them rock. The medium/technology with with you use shouldn't be the focus. It's merely a technicality.
I am a vinyl DJ & have been for a long time. Nowadays I use Serato & I have painstakingly recorded my vinyl into 320kbps mp3 format to use in the convenience of the Serato ScratchLIVe format rather than carry several crates of vinyl with me. Whether you play mp3, WAV, AIFF, vinyl simulation, CDJs, whatever, it's insignificant.
Just playing music to other people does make you a DJ 'cause that's all a DJ is. Someone who plays music to entertain people. You could be using any medium.
A DJ in the modern sub cultural sense might do a lot more than than that, & having skills on the 1's & 2's goes a long way... Check out You Tube for some videos on the DMC champs. But if you only do that & don't embrace technology like Skotty says you get left behind & lost in the debate of technicalities & you may not necessarily be able to rock the dancefloor next to someone that does embrace technology.
Just remember... It's all about...the MUSIC. Not YOU!!!! & not the medium
the medium is irrelevant, its what you do with the music. vinyl used to rule over cd in terms of functionality until the technology became better.. now you can do more things with cd/digital
you have to be a professional and work all formats
does a plumber just say he uses one type of tool ?
does a doctor do it all natural or use meds to help with cancer ?
remember if you have been in the job for more than 30 years (as I have)
then you would have been using all types of Formats from reel to reel to cassette's thru to vinyl,
CDs and now at a cost for the new FORMAT shift licence to use mp3's on the job get caught without
said licences then dont say you wasnt told - www.ppca.com.au
Comments
uttered
vinyl all the way but i'm comeing over to cd's now and mp3 just better 4 you
announced
I have this arguement / discussion with friends all the time. Deep down I am a purist and I believe that vinyl is the essence of all DJing. However, it would be stupid to ignore the amazing technological developments that have taken DJing to levels we only dreamt of 10 years ago. If you are using serato or final scratch, etc to manipulate your MP3s I still believe you are harnessing the true essence of the DJ. But if you are using these fandangled new stations that you just have to plug your ipod into... then no you are not a DJ. remember D-J = Disk Jockey not Digital - Jockey.
added
I think the question should
I think the question should relate to the way in which a DJ mixes, in other words the method as opposed to the medium.
For instance, a DJ can spin vinyl, CDs or play MP3s through a CDJ in real-time (i.e. LIVE or ad-lib) which essentially requires a LOT of talent and experience to pull off a good mix.
On the other hand, a DJ might use software like Ableton or VeeJay which only requires that you compile a good list of tracks and make sure your cue points are appropriate. It's not live, therefore it's not really 'DJing'.
DJ Kork said it very well - DJ doesn't stand for digital jockey.
Ergo, I can't really vote on this because the question doesn't take into account the method a DJ uses to DJ, which in my opinion determines if s/he's a 'real' or 'proper' dj.
djluke
noted
You're a DJ if you play music for other people. If you think you're a proper DJ only cause you're spinning vinyl, means you've got small man syndrome.
RyanJ
remarked
Well said Mussolini. I
Well said Mussolini. I still think that stringing tracks together using software takes a lot of the skill away from DJing.
Just playing music for other people doesn't necessarily make you a DJ though, it makes you a jukebox - in 9 years of mobile DJing, I came to understand there's a difference (this is a matter of definition though).
remarked
djluke wrote: Just playing
Yes it does. But it doesn't necessarily make you a good DJ. A good club DJ to me is great to watch, dance and listen to.
RyanJ
mentioned
Im with Ryan here... I only
Im with Ryan here...
I only play cd's and vinyl at present but am a firm believer in the fact that if you dont embrace technology you get left behind!!!
If you play on Ableton etc then you should be doing MORE than is possible with vinyl or cdj's and doing remixes on the fly etc...
Being able to play and mix vinyl doesn'e make you a good dj at all it just means you can beat match, beat matching is a veryn small part of the complete package, dont kid yourself otherwise...
Take producing as an example you can buy a whole dvd of samples, have your DAW put them in the right key and tempo but it doesn't mean you can make a good track without the knowledge and talent!!!!
Scott Hanrahan
DJ/Producer/Music Lover
mentioned
And I agree... but I'd also
And I agree... but I'd also like to clarify here that the point I was trying to make is merely about the method of laying down a mix.
When it comes to playing to a crowd - it's a different game. The focus, of course, should be on the entertainment of your audience, therefore you've got to play GREAT tracks in a GREAT sequence and mix them GREATLY (use software to do this and you'll be told where to go if anyone finds out).
In saying that, I've seen BT play his 'Laptop Symphony' twice now, and he uses musical instruments alongside his laptop to create a different experience altogether. I would call him an artist because of it, not a DJ.
djluke
rabbited on
I have old Renaissance
I have old Renaissance C.D.'s that were marketed and sold as "D.J. Mixes" that feature BT and in the liner notes BT stresses the point that he does not consider himself to be a D.J. at all. He states something along the lines of being a "digital artist". I remember reading this and thinking what a curious way to present yourself, especially when this was released all the way back in 1997 when the D.J. superstar phenomenon was in full effect and everyone wanted to be a "D.J.". When you listen to his mix it seems a lot like a D.J. mix but most of the content has been altered, remixed by BT on the fly or pre edited and effects used all to enhance what he was presenting. 1997. Long before the commercial availability of software applications that we are all familiar with these days. He is not a D.J. but many people would still quote his name when asked who there most memorable D.J. performances were.
If your using technology because you are too lazy to learn the finer points of the art of mixing but still presenting yourself as a D.J you are cheating. If your good at it how ever and the audience engages in your sound and flow your are successful. Chances are though that if you have this command of your medium and, in turn the command of the listeners, that you have not skipped the previously essential education required to perform in this fashion. As has been stated it's all about the music. In the future (and presently) this technology will allow artists to skip learning beat matching should they choose to but it will not make them any more proficient in the vital elements required to rock the crowd. Track selection, musical phrasing and the physical element involved when performing all contribute to the way a dance floor engages with the performer. If you are just pushing buttons to cue the next big floor filler after the last big floor filler the audience will eventually get bored with you and see through you. If you have pre edited it all so you have very little to do when responding to the atmosphere and mood of the crowd you will get bored yourself. If your not the most animated person whilst playing but have used your tools to bring them something new and poured your soul and knowledge of your medium into the performance it will be reflected in the output and the crowd will appreciate this more than if your jumping around like a trained monkey compensating for your lack of effort in other areas.
In the past Danny Tenaglia has been know to request a curtain to be placed in front of him while playing or for the decks to be moved to a less conspicuous location in the venue to take the emphasis off him as the artist and have the focus shifted back onto the music. A little frustrating for those who really wanted to see him play but does it detract from the music itself?
If you are not using C.D.'s or vinyl as your medium then no I don't think you are a D.J. in the strictest sense of the term. If you are presenting yourself as a D.J. and not utilizing the other benefits (looping, effects, multiple sound inputs, etc.) that bypassing the beat mixing or blending process that traditional D.J.'ing encompasses then your cheating yourself and the audience. You might still be billed as a D.J. but playing recorded music to an audience doesn't make you a D.J. any more than eating a burrito makes you Mexican. If you use your music and what ever your chosen medium is to produce it to offer the listener your own interpretation of how it should sound and rock you, calm you, make you feel, what ever the desired result, however minimal those differences should be to the original content then your are an artist. D.J. or not. It's all about the music and the experience.
Peace in the middle east.............. Rhys.
stated
rhyspdk wrote: If your
Don't agree .. Will you be able to make better milkshakes because you know how to milk a cow? No.. but you may feel better about yourself. The balance and quality of the ingredients is what will make it taste great.
Why ? I'm still not getting it.. I've listened to plenty of vinyl/cdj mixes that are just fucken PLAIN OLD SHIT. So in that case I'd rather listen to an Ableton or mixmeister set any day.
I've also seen very average Ableton sets too BTW. I think there needs to be a live (human) element to a DJ performance to make it good. Perfect mixes suck.
RyanJ
rabbited on
I am not trying to take
I am not trying to take anything away from using mediums other than vinyl or c.d.'s, (I use a laptop for 95% of performances) all I'm saying is that you are not actually "jockeying disc's" which is what the term refers to. I switched to Ableton about 4 years ago largely due to logistical restrictions when traveling, but also because of a fascination with new technology and the possibilities it offered. I now play almost exclusively from my laptop. I usually have some vinyl with me either as back up or to play tracks that aren't available in digital format, or sometimes just because I want to play vinyl. I have only used CDJ's twice when playing live and never outside of a club and didn't feel right with them due only to my inexperience with them not because of any prejudice against them.
I guess I may have misrepresented myself when I said that you are cheating calling it D.J.'ing and not spinning disc's depending on your personal views of what can and can't be called D.J.'ing. You yourself said that perfect beatmixing does not make a D.J. I do believe though that currently those that have gone through the traditional learning curve in most (not all) instances have a better grasp when it comes to phrasing ie: determining drop points, fade points and cuts. This will not always be the case. I don't think everyone should have to go through this. It's a matter of preference and I don't judge anyones choice in the matter. My point was if your not spinning discs it is the term itself that is a point of contention with some people and after much experience in debating the topic (often whilst mixing off a laptop and some punter is trying to tell me "it's not really "D.J.'ing" is it?") I have simply decided that it's easier at this stage to call it just "playing" or "mixing".
If your letting the technology do it for you with the least possible amount of input from yourself maybe it's just yourself that your letting down or the audience as well but if your happy with that then thats all that matters. I like to have more influence on the process.
I too have heard many software produced mixes that were to put it plainly dog shit. The art of mixing is progressing and what ever way you choose to go about it I am fine with it. My predilection is for Ableton at the present though I still really love vinyl. If I play an entire set off Ableton I would not call it D.J.'ing but if anyone else would like to thats fine with me. If someone else plays without discs and wants to call it D.J.'ing I wont argue with them or say any different behind their back as the process results in much the same product.
I know I'm long winded I just want to get across that I am open to all formats. I don't think it matters as long as you and or any one else listening enjoys it and takes something away from it. I'm no hater.
Peace in the middle east.............. Rhys.
uttered
Ok. you can stay.
Ok. you can stay.
RyanJ
brought up
DJing is all about playing to an audience, reading that audience & making them rock. The medium/technology with with you use shouldn't be the focus. It's merely a technicality.
I am a vinyl DJ & have been for a long time. Nowadays I use Serato & I have painstakingly recorded my vinyl into 320kbps mp3 format to use in the convenience of the Serato ScratchLIVe format rather than carry several crates of vinyl with me. Whether you play mp3, WAV, AIFF, vinyl simulation, CDJs, whatever, it's insignificant.
Just playing music to other people does make you a DJ 'cause that's all a DJ is. Someone who plays music to entertain people. You could be using any medium.
A DJ in the modern sub cultural sense might do a lot more than than that, & having skills on the 1's & 2's goes a long way... Check out You Tube for some videos on the DMC champs. But if you only do that & don't embrace technology like Skotty says you get left behind & lost in the debate of technicalities & you may not necessarily be able to rock the dancefloor next to someone that does embrace technology.
Just remember... It's all about...the MUSIC. Not YOU!!!! & not the medium
Phaze_5
uttered
well said phaze sounds like
well said phaze sounds like you have had this argument once or twice in your time, wise words from one down to earth dude
uttered
O.K. I guess I just got lost in the moment and forgot to ask the real question. What do you consider to be a "proper dj?"
Peace in the middle east.............. Rhys.
noted
the medium is irrelevant, its what you do with the music. vinyl used to rule over cd in terms of functionality until the technology became better.. now you can do more things with cd/digital
mentioned
It shouldnt matter you are a Vinyl, CD or MP3 Dj
you have to be a professional and work all formats
does a plumber just say he uses one type of tool ?
does a doctor do it all natural or use meds to help with cancer ?
remember if you have been in the job for more than 30 years (as I have)
then you would have been using all types of Formats from reel to reel to cassette's thru to vinyl,
CDs and now at a cost for the new FORMAT shift licence to use mp3's on the job get caught without
said licences then dont say you wasnt told - www.ppca.com.au
personally I go for Vinyl and CDs
have a nice day all
Have a Nice Day